Comments on: Wash. school district prohibits students from praying, ADF sues http://www.alliancealert.org/2008/03/12/wash-school-district-prohibits-students-from-praying-adf-sues/ news from the frontlines of the culture war Sat, 11 Oct 2008 06:16:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.2-alpha By: jim bittner http://www.alliancealert.org/2008/03/12/wash-school-district-prohibits-students-from-praying-adf-sues/#comment-876 jim bittner Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:59:27 +0000 http://www.alliancealert.org/2008/03/12/wash-school-district-prohibits-students-from-praying-adf-sues/#comment-876 If students are discussing any topic, and using the bible as basis for reasoning, they are actually reading a book that has correct information on many of these subjects taught in school, with very few things different than public shcools teach. For instance the Bible is : Book of History; book of math; book of art; book of literature; book of biology, book of geology; book of geography; book of zoology; book of creative writing; construction; current world affairs, and a fiction book to some as well as non-fiction book to others. What kind of educator would believe and support mandates to get rid of things like assembling to discuss such a book, especially on one's one time? how sad. If students are discussing any topic, and using the bible as basis for reasoning, they are actually reading a book that has correct information on many of these subjects taught in school, with very few things different than public shcools teach.
For instance the Bible is :
Book of History; book of math; book of art; book of literature; book of biology, book of geology; book of geography; book of zoology; book of creative writing; construction; current world affairs, and a fiction book to some as well as non-fiction book to others.

What kind of educator would believe and support mandates to get rid of things like assembling to discuss such a book, especially on one’s one time?

how sad.

]]> By: jim bittner http://www.alliancealert.org/2008/03/12/wash-school-district-prohibits-students-from-praying-adf-sues/#comment-875 jim bittner Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:45:00 +0000 http://www.alliancealert.org/2008/03/12/wash-school-district-prohibits-students-from-praying-adf-sues/#comment-875 i attended school in the east valley district from kindergarden through graduation, along with 6 brothers and sisters. My three children have also attended the same number of as myself, as well as the head start prior to kindergarden. No, I am not against the east valley school district. i played sports, varsity letter in three sports, three years in highschool, as well as starting varsity the majority of those nine seasons. My children are into athletics also. No, i am not against sports. I am far from that. You must agree that discrimination against ones view of life, and where we came from, how we got here, and/or where we might be going when we are no longer here is something that should carry over to the same discrimination against one's views of how to play a certain sport, or how their drive to school went this morning. i am not even eluding to the spare time or breaks here. we are so backwards now that we can't even see in front of us. It may not be Jeff Miller's fault, since he probably gets his interpretations from the district above him, and so on. so, should we be passing laws, or interpreting into the laws, rules that make it wrong for one to utter a word about topics that have no facts. If we have classes like math, we can double check what our children are being taught. we can divide and check it by multipication, subtract to double check our addition. if we have classes like history, we can check it to see if they are being taught the right dates, and people. If we have classes like music, art, physical education then we can enjoy them. when it comes to classes on the topic of "where we came from" and "where we end up" such as liturature, biology, geology; we must allow all thuought process on the matter. After all, what are we afraid of, that a fifteen minute break or one half hour is enough to conteract the constant pounding of evoulution(macro) as the answer to these types of questions we pose to ourselves? The evolutionary sytem being taught today as a part of where we may have came from and how, is a theory. There is no way to proove it, no REAL transitional fossils, and no facts other than (micro) evolution which is true and does happen. Adaptation and selection is science. (micro) but where we came from is not science, it is a belief or theory as you may want to put it. The same is discussion on this matter. There just simply is no proof from any religion either. Nope, just like evolution theory or belief, they are only religious theories, no matter which one (religion) they are not something that can be prooved. I say this because students are forced to answer questions the way evolution views these questions or get the question wrong. (even though it is a belief or theory totally against their own theory. For you to not allow students to agree, or refute this belief system with another option, like the Bible, on their break time is not only discriminatory it makes no sense at all. think about what your are doing here. Teaching any one theory about how mankind got here, and not teaching any other theory is more like brain washing than teaching. I would not want my religion to be taught as the only theory. I would rather put them all in the same category and throw them all out or let them choose between all of them. I dont care if your:l hinduism; bhudism; mormonism; or 3men ism; jehovahism; 7th dayism; catholicism; or mechanism; contribution or evolution; or Christianity. They are all base on belief (or theory) and should be taught as equals. If you can not do this than how can one's sanity be retained in or around school. Not allowing student(s) to discuss this religion of evolution(macro) with classmates that have questions, and are not allowed to compare the fossil record or the theory of evolution with our own theories in class, why not in the small amount of time between class, such as lunch, breaks, or before and after school. who cares where they assemble, they are using their own time to compare a theory taught by East Valley School District to that of their own theory that they got from reading a book believed to be inspired by the same that created everything that we know and see. besides the payoff for them is not to reach the other thousand or whatever, students that don't care to take part in the discussions, but maybe the handful that do. Maybe the handful could include someone thinking about committing murder or suicide. Maybe someone that wants to have sexual relations prior to marriage wants to discuss this with students that have biblical views theses subjects. Lets compare what might happen if things they want to discuss with other students about biblical views were allowed. Topics and views such as: *YOU CAN'T MURDER ANYONE, NOT EVEN YOURSELF *ABSTAIN FROM SEXUAL ACTIVITY TIL MARRIED, THEN GO FOR IT! *HATE SIN OF THOSE AROUND YOU, DO NOT HATE THE SINNER *ENCOURAGE FELLOW STUDENTS TO DISCUSS, NOT BOTTLE IT UP. *DON'T STEAL , CHEAT, OR LIE *DON'T SWEAR AT ALL *HONOR YOUR MOM AND DAD *TEACHERS OF CHILDREN ARE MORE ACCOUNTABLE THAN LAYMEN *PUNISHMENT WILL FOLLOW A BAD CHOICE ; CHOOSE GOOD *YOUR GOALS IN LIFE ARE TO HELP THOSE AROUND YOU *ALLOW ANY INTO YOUR GROUP THAT WANT; NOT GANGS & CLICKS Compare that to evolutionary philosophy; LIVE IT UP, GONNA DIE AND BE WORM FOOD ANYWAY. YOU CAME BY CHANCE TO BE, AND ARE GOING NO WHERE AFTER YOU DIE, SO IF IT FEELS GOOD - DO IT!...NO ONE TO ANSWERE TO BUT ME, AND I CAN DO AS I FEEL FIT FOR ME. I MUST OUT STRIVE MY FELLOW STUDENTS, AND I NO MATTER HOW I CHOOSE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS GOAL, I ULTIMATELY HAVE NO ONE OR NOTHING TO ANSWER TO FOR MY CHOICES. if you want to teach the religion of evolution(macro) to my children and have me fund it, while at the same time squeezing out even the shortest time between this nonsense, fairy tale that a frog can turn into a prince; not by kissing the frog but adding millions or billions of years to the equation, your out of luck. All other theories of origin are being attacked by decisions likes these, just to blurr the larger of the two problems: why are we teaching only one theory on origin called evolution. Jeff miller's statement of "seperation of church and state" could not be further from the indended letter written to Thomas Jefferson. it stated ; Be assured that we intend not to run the government with the church, any church. I do not believe these students are inteding to run, or even persuade the governmental decisions by their actions, nor are they trying to take over the school, deciding what your school curriculum should be. Instead, they are discussing love, hope, patience, endurance, honesty, sacrifice, fellowship, and so many more super intellegent ideas.....on their own time.......with only those who choose to........student led, and student provoked. Many, if not all of which are the same attributes East Valley School Disrict try to instill in the students prior to graduation. Better look a little closer at this one; faculty, principal, administrators, shcool boards, reps and any other officials involved here! if you won't take my word for what taking out the bible from school and slipping evolution(macro) in its place does to students and society, look around you. remember when school trouble were gum under desks, and spit wads? now suicide, guns and knives, and mass murder in some cases have replaced that. since 1963 when prayer was ejected from public schools, crimes have skyrocketed. Murder has also. Teen pregnancy has grown mightly. we have murdered one fifth of our population through abortion.(60 mil) divorce rates made gigantic climbs. and so on and so on. you can say all you want about your reasons for all this happening around us, but i know and you may someday find out that all along it came from teaching kids from 3rd grade through graduation, that the theory of evolution, along with millions and billions of years is the choice of the tax payers dollar for a theory of how mankind got here! oh yeah, if you really want it to get alot worse, .....pinch out the only time to contradict such a minless theory from under any student who dares to utter any theory but the dumb one that has links, gaps and everything acceptable missing from it. I will be watching, and am sure 100% that East Valley School District is not only wrong on these ideas morally, but am 120% sure that the law does not allow for this kind of discrimination. When and if i become wrong about this matter, i move to another district, then another state, or even to another country if it spreads that far. We were founded as a nation under God, and remain that way. as soon as i see that we are no longer under God, that will be it for us! If you get enough people in this country to join East Valley School Districts views on this matter of law, and push God out completely, even from one's break time, God may just leave us alone as we have chosen. Please do not allow this to ever happen cause that will declare the end of U.S. IT ALL STARTS AT THE SMALLER LEVEL AND WORKS IT'S WAY UP! STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW! BEFORE IT CATCHES US ALL BE SURPRISE. whew! glad i got that out....now if i could only proof read this comment....i think it may be too long, so maybe i will read it later. THANK YOU FOR OGANIZATIONS LIKE A.D.F. (whom i have never heard of prior to this) THANK YOU FOR A.C.L.J (whom i have heard fighting these cases, successfully!) My heart, and prayers go out to fighters like you. keep it up. -jim i attended school in the east valley district from kindergarden through graduation, along with 6 brothers and sisters. My three children have also attended the same number of as myself, as well as the head start prior to kindergarden. No, I am not against the east valley school district.
i played sports, varsity letter in three sports, three years in highschool, as well as starting varsity the majority of those nine seasons. My children are into athletics also. No, i am not against sports. I am far from that.
You must agree that discrimination against ones view of life, and where we came from, how we got here, and/or where we might be going when we are no longer here is something that should carry over to the same discrimination against one’s views of how to play a certain sport, or how their drive to school went this morning.
i am not even eluding to the spare time or breaks here. we are so backwards now that we can’t even see in front of us.
It may not be Jeff Miller’s fault, since he probably gets his interpretations from the district above him, and so on.
so, should we be passing laws, or interpreting into the laws, rules that make it wrong for one to utter a word about topics that have no facts.
If we have classes like math, we can double check what our children are being taught. we can divide and check it by multipication, subtract to double check our addition.
if we have classes like history, we can check it to see if they are being taught the right dates, and people.
If we have classes like music, art, physical education then we can enjoy them.
when it comes to classes on the topic of “where we came from” and “where we end up” such as liturature, biology, geology; we must allow all thuought process on the matter. After all, what are we afraid of, that a fifteen minute break or one half hour is enough to conteract the constant pounding of evoulution(macro) as the answer to these types of questions we pose to ourselves? The evolutionary sytem being taught today as a part of where we may have came from and how, is a theory. There is no way to proove it, no REAL transitional fossils, and no facts other than (micro) evolution which is true and does happen. Adaptation and selection is science. (micro) but where we came from is not science, it is a belief or theory as you may want to put it. The same is discussion on this matter. There just simply is no proof from any religion either. Nope, just like evolution theory or belief, they are only religious theories, no matter which one (religion) they are not something that can be prooved.
I say this because students are forced to answer questions the way evolution views these questions or get the question wrong. (even though it is a belief or theory totally against their own theory. For you to not allow students to agree, or refute this belief system with another option, like the Bible, on their break time is not only discriminatory it makes no sense at all.
think about what your are doing here. Teaching any one theory about how mankind got here, and not teaching any other theory is more like brain washing than teaching. I would not want my religion to be taught as the only theory. I would rather put them all in the same category and throw them all out or let them choose between all of them. I dont care if your:l
hinduism; bhudism; mormonism; or 3men ism; jehovahism; 7th dayism;
catholicism; or mechanism; contribution or evolution; or Christianity. They are all base on belief (or theory) and should be taught as equals. If you can not do this than how can one’s sanity be retained in or around school. Not allowing student(s) to discuss this religion of evolution(macro) with classmates that have questions, and are not allowed to compare the fossil record or the theory of evolution with our own theories in class, why not in the small amount of time between class, such as lunch, breaks, or before and after school. who cares where they assemble, they are using their own time to compare a theory taught by East Valley School District to that of their own theory that they got from reading a book believed to be inspired by the same that created everything that we know and see.
besides the payoff for them is not to reach the other thousand or whatever, students that don’t care to take part in the discussions, but maybe the handful that do. Maybe the handful could include someone thinking about committing murder or suicide. Maybe someone that wants to have sexual relations prior to marriage wants to discuss this with students that have biblical views theses subjects.
Lets compare what might happen if things they want to discuss with other students about biblical views were allowed. Topics and views
such as: *YOU CAN’T MURDER ANYONE, NOT EVEN YOURSELF
*ABSTAIN FROM SEXUAL ACTIVITY TIL MARRIED, THEN GO FOR IT!
*HATE SIN OF THOSE AROUND YOU, DO NOT HATE THE SINNER
*ENCOURAGE FELLOW STUDENTS TO DISCUSS, NOT BOTTLE IT UP.
*DON’T STEAL , CHEAT, OR LIE
*DON’T SWEAR AT ALL
*HONOR YOUR MOM AND DAD
*TEACHERS OF CHILDREN ARE MORE ACCOUNTABLE THAN LAYMEN
*PUNISHMENT WILL FOLLOW A BAD CHOICE ; CHOOSE GOOD
*YOUR GOALS IN LIFE ARE TO HELP THOSE AROUND YOU
*ALLOW ANY INTO YOUR GROUP THAT WANT; NOT GANGS & CLICKS

Compare that to evolutionary philosophy;
LIVE IT UP, GONNA DIE AND BE WORM FOOD ANYWAY. YOU CAME BY CHANCE TO BE, AND ARE GOING NO WHERE AFTER YOU DIE, SO IF IT FEELS GOOD - DO IT!…NO ONE TO ANSWERE TO BUT ME, AND I CAN DO AS I FEEL FIT FOR ME. I MUST OUT STRIVE MY FELLOW STUDENTS, AND I NO MATTER HOW I CHOOSE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS GOAL, I ULTIMATELY HAVE NO ONE OR NOTHING TO ANSWER TO FOR MY CHOICES.

if you want to teach the religion of evolution(macro) to my children and have me fund it, while at the same time squeezing out even the shortest time between this nonsense, fairy tale that a frog can turn into a prince; not by kissing the frog but adding millions or billions of years to the equation, your out of luck. All other theories of origin are being attacked by decisions likes these, just to blurr the larger of the two problems: why are we teaching only one theory on origin called evolution.
Jeff miller’s statement of “seperation of church and state” could not be further from the indended letter written to Thomas Jefferson. it stated ; Be assured that we intend not to run the government with the church, any church.
I do not believe these students are inteding to run, or even persuade the governmental decisions by their actions, nor are they trying to take over the school, deciding what your school curriculum should be. Instead, they are discussing love, hope, patience, endurance, honesty, sacrifice, fellowship, and so many more super intellegent ideas…..on their own time…….with only those who choose to……..student led, and student provoked.
Many, if not all of which are the same attributes East Valley School Disrict try to instill in the students prior to graduation.

Better look a little closer at this one; faculty, principal, administrators, shcool boards, reps and any other officials involved here! if you won’t take my word for what taking out the bible from school and slipping evolution(macro) in its place does to students and society, look around you.
remember when school trouble were gum under desks, and spit wads?
now suicide, guns and knives, and mass murder in some cases have replaced that.
since 1963 when prayer was ejected from public schools, crimes have skyrocketed. Murder has also. Teen pregnancy has grown mightly. we have murdered one fifth of our population through abortion.(60 mil)
divorce rates made gigantic climbs. and so on and so on.
you can say all you want about your reasons for all this happening around us, but i know and you may someday find out that all along it came from teaching kids from 3rd grade through graduation, that the theory of evolution, along with millions and billions of years is the choice of the tax payers dollar for a theory of how mankind got here!
oh yeah, if you really want it to get alot worse, …..pinch out the only time to contradict such a minless theory from under any student who dares to utter any theory but the dumb one that has links, gaps and everything acceptable missing from it.
I will be watching, and am sure 100% that East Valley School District is not only wrong on these ideas morally, but am 120% sure that the law does not allow for this kind of discrimination. When and if i become wrong about this matter, i move to another district, then another state, or even to another country if it spreads that far. We were founded as a nation under God, and remain that way. as soon as i see that we are no longer under God, that will be it for us! If you get enough people in this country to join East Valley School Districts views on this matter of law, and push God out completely, even from one’s break time, God may just leave us alone as we have chosen. Please do not allow this to ever happen cause that will declare the end of U.S.
IT ALL STARTS AT THE SMALLER LEVEL AND WORKS IT’S WAY UP!

STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW! BEFORE IT CATCHES US ALL BE SURPRISE.

whew! glad i got that out….now if i could only proof read this comment….i think it may be too long, so maybe i will read it later.
THANK YOU FOR OGANIZATIONS LIKE A.D.F. (whom i have never heard of prior to this) THANK YOU FOR A.C.L.J (whom i have heard fighting these cases, successfully!) My heart, and prayers go out to fighters like you. keep it up.
-jim

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